@metal_greg Just throwing my opinion out here. Don't hate me for it. However Skill builds in PVP of The Division. Currently they require no skill. Pressing Q and E (or whatever button on controller) is not suppose to deal so much damage. If you spec into all skills tier and skill damage, then I can see you putting someone down with a well placed Sticky bomb. In the end the skills should be there to assist you not do the job for you. This game currently is so cheesy with skills and its ruined the game. I watch many streamers play on heroic or Legendary and they sit in cover and press Q and E. HOW FUN!

LOOTER SHOOTER> NOTE LOOTER Q and E

@sock_monkey I agree. See in when the devs came out with Division 2, Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe they said they were going to have a separate pve and pvp modifier. Just like in 1.8.3 of div1 when they nerfed striker. it was nerfed in pvp but not in pve. I don't understand why the devs cant just make the skills work OP in PVE and keep pvp balanced different. In the DZ and Conflict or any pvp mode. Someone should not be able to press q or e , deploy a skill, shoot a chem fire or whatever and do crazy damage. This takes the skill of shooting and aiming better. Thats always been my complaint with div 2. That is why I think div 1 was better. PVP wise that is. When you got into a gun battle in the dz. It came down to proper timing of medkits. Recoil control and landing your shots. Headshots do more damage. There were talents like strike back and on the move, crit save. These were all things a player could do to win the gun fights. This is not the case in Div 2 pvp. Now its OP skills or Point and shoot first. Mostly just comes down to who has a slightly better build. This makes for a boring game.That is why a lot of people left This game. The rest of the players that still pvp. Dont want to play against skill build in the dz. its not fun. nor does it require skill. No matter what you say. Pressing q or e is a cheesy way to get kills. This is shooter. Not Some wizard magic potions and skills. Just my 2 cents on this topic. I know many will disagree I see so many players use skill builds, sit in cover and interact with there turrets, drones and or other skills. This is the direction the devs took this game. every new exotic was always something to do with skills builds. Boring in my opinion. Builds in this game are too easy to achieve what you want. I mean you can literally craft a hardwired set and throw skill damage on everything . Done! You got a OP Skill build.

@dutchlmb4ever I just wish they would drop more. Like the quantity is way too low. Even when you spend your SHD Watch points. Crafting gives you like 5 i think

@sock_monkey I do believe this is a RPG/Looter shooter. Google the Genre and you will see. Either way, if that play style is fun for you then have fun. That is what this game is all about. The only issue I have with what the op stated is that the pvp players are mad because of skill build in the DZ and He thinks that Skill builds in the DZ are tactical and require some sort of skill. I strongly disagree and think skills should only boost our character in certain ways. Like Div1 Towards the end. Skills were strong but could not just instantly kill another player. They served as a boost.

Just want to throw this out there. I am on pc and I have not had crashes that where too bad throughout the years of playing this game. However recently in the past few weeks. I cannot play at all. I mean I boot up and within a few mins, crashes to desktop. Not sure why or what is going on. I seriously doubt it s on my end so Im not really going to mess with any settings. This game is finally over for me. Time to move on.

Rog Strix b550i mobo
i9 11900k
Rog Stix 2080ti
32gb dominator platinum ram
1tb nvme
1000w psu

Just want to throw this out there. I am on pc and I have not had crashes that where too bad throughout the years of playing this game. However recently in the past few weeks. I cannot play at all. I mean I boot up and within a few mins, crashes to desktop. Not sure why or what is going on. I seriously doubt it s on my end so Im not really going to mess with any settings. This game is finally over for me. Time to move on.

Rog Strix b550i mobo
i9 11900k
Rog Stix 2080ti
32gb dominator platinum ram
1tb nvme
1000w psu

@x0nemanarmyx
Why not?
I really think Pre-made builds solves the Empty DZ('s) problem.
The only other thing that should be in there is, High chances of high rolled items.
It has to be attractive for PvE players to go in there.
PvP players don't care about the loot in there.
(Yes it's handy for them as well, but)
They just want to fight other players.
(So pre-made builds don't matter as long as there is PvP)
PvE players do care about loot, but the thing is the loot ain't good (Story mode loot).
So they stay far from it as this is a double nevermind for them.
And if they get melted while it's 4 of them against 1 pvp player.
They just go away, leaving the PvP player out once more.

Pre-made builds doesn't stop what you want.
Ganking/trolling/bullying/camping/multigrouping & "normal" play.
Pre-made builds just let's everyone be equally powerfull (Per type).
Yes it's annoying that you can't use your own builds.
But if players like YOU want a full DZ.
That is like The Wild West.
(Which it is supposed to be in my eyes)
Where everything is cool, until it's not.
- Controlpoint farming (Goldmine workers)
- PvP ambushes at extraction (Bandits)
- 1v1 (Revolver duels)
- Everyone is just chilling (Saloon hangers)
- DZ police (Sheriff's department)
- 4v4v4(v4) Mexican Standoff's
Etc
You need to compromise on the builds
(in DZ only, not in Conflict (pure PvP).
Also not in Last Stand as this would be the PvEvP for your own builds)

Anyway
- New players will not go in the DZ if they have trash builds.
- Veteran players with bad luck that can't get good rolled gear, will also not go in there.
- Most players at launch, will not go in there either, as they like to play PvE until they have decent builds.

With Pre-made builds, anyone can immediately go into the DZ.
No waiting/hoping/praying for good drops in PvE.
And PvP players don't have to wait on other players that want decent builds first.
People can farm in the DZ for their pure PvE builds, so they can do legendary missions (or faster).
PvE and PvP + Everything in between that.
- DZ rats that follow 1 agent and attack them while they are putting loot on the rope.
- DZ police that multigroup on 1 team.

It would just be more attractive for everyone.

First of all Pre- made builds would be boring. The whole point of the Division is build making. Grinding for builds and theory crafting and testing it out.
Yes you are correct though. The Dz should have better chances to drop better loot. I have never been a fan of locking certain items. I just think better chance of getting the better loot.
I think you are completely wrong when you say, pvp players just want to go into the dz and fight, I think the idea is to fight for the loot. If you see someone extract something. You fight for there loot or to extract your loot and not get it stolen. This is where the pve community cries.. This is what the Division was suppose to be. What made it original and epic. Yes we want to pvp but we also want that better loot. Either we farm it or we try and steal it.
The problem with Div 2 is they made the pvp so bad there is no skill gap. So 4v1 or 3v1 is almost impossible now. There is very little a player can do know to outplay another. Its been simplified so much that its just build vs build. Point and click. if there is two players against you. well then you probably going to lose. This is the issue now. It use to not be like this in div1.
The reason I say plebs is because many pve players in this community think all we want to do is go in the dz with a overpowered build and steal underpowered players loot. This is not what makes us feel like we are great players. to be honest. When I solo and 4 guys try and steal my loot and I come out on top. That makes me happy. Even if I lose but it was a good battle. well it was still fun. I dont understand why the pve community cares so much about getting there loot stolen in the DZ. Its not like you will never get that loot in the future.

The DZ (in Div3) needs premade builds that everyone can choose from.
- For everyone at launch
So every player can farm in there immediately.
- For new players (months/years later)
So they don't have to farm PvE first for weeks/months.
- For veteran players
That normally would have doo doo RNG

(And Conflict should be for your own builds)

I do play DZ every now and then, but I'm not a PvP player, mostly PvE, so this didnt/doesn't matter to me.
But if I was a full on PvP player, i wasn't able to go into the DZ (or conflict) at the time of launch, until WoNY.
Because my RNG was next level TRASH!!
Most of my attributes were under the middle.
(I was playing un-nerfed Heroic's, didnt help farming loot wise)
My RNG only became better a year after WoNY came out.
So I really could've used pre-made builds if I wanted to play DZ.
I probably would play it immediately and more often.
Because i would know that if I would get melted by someone, I could just inspect them, respawn in the checkpoint, and switch to that build as well.

no. This is not at all what should happen for the dz and pvp. This would be stupid and is exactly why the devs should not listen to such nonsense. SMH!!!

I do think the DZ was the intended end game for Div1 also. I think it needed a LOT more love to get it to where it needed to be for that to happen but at the end of the day the team couldn't turn it's head to the fact that the overwhelming majority of players were strictly PvE. At that point, you have to wonder why they would choose to continue to service a fraction of the playerbase in the DZ, over the majority who showed they only wanted PvE?

I am hoping with games like Tarkov, and The Cycle, Heartlands has some version of that game mode of what the DZ could be like if they would have hashed out that game mode more.

I agree but here is the issue I see. The devs cannot come out with content for pve every month. It’s just impossible. So if they would just focus on the Darkzone witch is the true endgame anyways. The pve plebs will still play pve. All they care about is throwing a build together and shooting NPC’s to get some gear to drop.

@gnarlyatol1793

the Dz in Div 2 requires no skill. Div2 in general requires very little skill. Movement is slow, no recoil very few talents and builds. I mean to be honest you can use any build and do fine. Even a Frankenstein build. There is no outplay mechanics anymore. You just point and click. Or use skills, press Q and E. Done. The devs simplified everything. Thinking this would make the casual player enjoy the DZ more and it failed

When they published the data about TD1, before the release of TD2, the amount of players who actually set foot in the DZ at least once were about 10% of the entire playerbase.

The number of those who entered at least once a week were way less, and it included those who entered just to be done with weekly tasks.

The DZ is a failed concept.

not sure where you are getting those numbers. The DZ is not a failed concept. It just needs a better dev team with some balls. The idea of a open world pve/pvp where anyone can steal your loot is amazing. Sadly it just took the devs a wile to get it right in Div1. Towards the end. The DZ was alive. I’m Div2 they completely reworked it with the casual player in mind and this is what ruined it. They had the formula and went away from it. Not sure how you don’t see this

Sounds to me that there are other games that act exactly as you want with tarkov and hunt showdown. They have a more direct integration of PVE and PVP that sounds like what you want

ya see I like the Division. I prefer the movement and gun play. It’s 3rd person and not as clunky.

How cool would it have been, if Division 2 had devs that didn’t cater to the casual player. Or get scared to make this game what it should have been. I know, I know. You 50+ year old pve players don’t like the Darkzone but it is what the division was meant to be. They marketed it that way before they released Division 1. A open world pve/pvp, where the best loot was and you had to fight to extract it. Somewhere along the way the devs got soft and because of this, we have Division 2. Don’t get me wrong. The Division 2 is a great game the pve is amazing and the open world is far more alive then Div1 but that’s it. Why were they so scared to make the DZ toxic like div1. There is a game called sea of thieves that is very much like the DZ. You get loot and then you have to sell it. People can gank you and steal your loot. For a long time the same thing happened where people complained about getting ganked but the devs never batted a eye to changing that style of play. It’s what makes the game so fun. Risk vs reward. I know this rant has probably been brought up many times before and Div 2 is at the end of its cycle here. I just can’t help but hope that if they make a Division 3, go back to what the original idea was for the DZ. That is the true end game. It’s suppose to be toxic and salty. Getting ganked sucks but it doesn’t mean you won’t get that loot later. We all have been ganked many times. That’s just the fun of it. So if the devs see this. Please stop catering to the casuals. Pve players no matter how much they hate the dz, or won’t go in there. They will still play the game. You can lock the best loot behind the DZ and they will still play. The pve players will be upset but they will still play. They just want to shoot some NPC’s and get some loot.

feel free to hate on me. I’m just sad that a community of pve players was able to cry loud enough that these soft devs built Division 2 as a sequel.

@latenitedelight you really think div 2 has better variety of builds? then div 1? I want whatever you're smoking

@sock_monkey Yes I do remember. During pts everyone mentioned this. The devs went on state of the game and said they think its fine. Then the next patch they fixed it. I am fine with the amount that is required. Just want to be able to grind a bit faster for the resources. Or give us many more options to grind for them.