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  • Rincewind2981
    8 posts

    Let's unpack a couple of things, the argument you brought about is legal in nature, we will get to this, your moral stance on the other hand is spot on, Ubisoft should offer refunds when they change a product, altering something so fundamentally after purchase is screwed up, but with many things, morality does not always line up with legality.

    Now, back to the matter at hand.
    First, Terms of Service agreements may be one thing, but we are not talking about Tos agreements, we are talking EULAs, which are legally binding. There are whole sectors of digital copyright laws devoted to these, and they are always in corporate favor. Before buying any product digitally you agree to be bound by them. Ask Ubisoft for your end user license agreement, they will be happy to show it to you.

    Second, even though I said product in the above paragraph, you have actually not purchased a product, that armor that you claim you have bought is not a product. You have only bought a license to use a piece of their intellectual property, they can change that intellectual property, in any way, up to and including deletion of said product. The only way this comes out as a bait and switch, is if they alter the intellectual property between time a purchase and download, and even then youd only be eligible for a refund, at that, there is still no crime.

    I get it, it's a raw deal, for all of us, but as we only buy access to something they own, they will always control what it is, even to the detriment of our sense of fun. I wish you the best in your endeavour, if it works out for you, it works out for us all. Keep arguing, I just dont think it's going to get you anywhere.

  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts


    I just went over Ubisoft's EULA and I still see nothing that lets them justly do what they did.

    First, here is a LINK to the EULA that I am getting my information from so you can see for yourself.

    UBISOFT reserves the right, in its sole and absolute discretion, to revise, update, change, modify, add to, supplement, or delete certain terms of this EULA for security,
     legal, best practice or regulatory reasons. Such changes will be effective with or, as applicable, without prior notice to You. 
    You can review the most current version of this EULA by clicking on the “EULA” link located on the Product or on ubi.com. 
    You are responsible for checking this EULA periodically for changes. If any future changes to this EULA are unacceptable to You or cause 
    You to no longer be in agreement or compliance with this EULA, You may terminate this EULA in accordance with Section 8 and must immediately 
    uninstall the Product and destroy all copies of the Product. Your continued use of the Product following any revision to this EULA constitutes 
    Your complete and irrevocable acceptance of any and all such changes.

    You can't legally demand that a customer has to destroy the product that they legally purchased. This goes against your basic owner's rights. This wouldn't hold up in court in the slightest.

    10.3 No Waiver. No failure or delay by UBISOFT (or its licensors) to exercise any right or remedy provided under this EULA or by law 
    shall constitute a waiver of that or any other right or remedy, nor shall it preclude or restrict the further exercise of that or 
    any other right or remedy. No single or partial exercise of such right or remedy shall preclude or restrict the further exercise of that 
    or any other right or remedy. Waiver of a right or remedy may be considered to have taken place only after signing of a written statement to 
    this effect by UBISOFT or by the User.

    We, the consumer, have never entered a written agreement with Ubisoft that allows them to waiver our rights in regards to property ownership. This falls into "Goods and Services" and as much as Ubisoft wants their product to be considered as a service, it will never legally be considered a service. A service is like an online membership. Just because you pay once doesn't mean you have access to the game's online service for ever. The fact that we aren't expected to pay for the same DLC item once makes it a Goods.

    and now the bombshell.


    As I mentioned you can't legally give away your rights in an EULA or a TOS. It has to be a written and signed contract.(and even then that isn't 100% legally binding in certain cases) Granted, consumer rights isn't world wide but in the U.S. we have the Consumer Bill of Rights and in Australia we have the ACCC.

    The EULA does mention that before someone can sue them they must file a claim at HERE first to try to work out the issue away from the public's eye. ( Because what they are doing is scummy and a PR nightmare.)

  • DuskDragon56496
    475 posts

    Well done foxhound, and I only looked at Federal Consumer Laws,but Federal laws are binding,Ubisofts policies are not,for example, a store has a "no refund" policy,Now that covers the store if the product is whats described on the box,but say you get a fan which says it has 3 speeds on the box you open it,there are only two,the store has to give a refund because the product is not what was described.Every policy in every store in every state is subject to those laws.Nicely researched on that foxhound!

  • Rincewind2981
    8 posts

    Congratulations, many of your arguments would be compelling, and cogent, if you in fact OWNED anything in the transaction you had with Ubisoft. They get away with all this because you did not purchase a product, your purchased a license to use something. Something that is under the sole discretion of Ubisoft.

    If you bought the game digitally, or purchased any additional content, they can revoke your license at their discretion, period.

    If you bought it in physical form, while you may have access to the game that is on your physical media, Ubisoft can stop you from upgrading it, purchasing additional content, or connecting to any of their servers.

    You are stuck on the idea of ownership, you didn't buy Assassins creed Valhalla, you dont own it, you bought a license to use it, for the term that Ubisoft sees fit to allow it.

    You didn't buy an armor pack, you dont own it, you bought a license to use an armor pack, for the term that Ubisoft sees fit to allow it.

    So long as they dont do something so completely beyond the pal, as to be deemed unconscionable by a court of law, you are stuck with their way or the highway.

  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts


    Well when you're right you're right.


    UBISOFT may modify the Product for any reason or without any specific reason, at any time and at its entire discretion, in particular for technical reasons such as updates, maintenance operations and/or resets to improve and/or optimize the Product. You agree that the Product may install or download the modifications automatically. You agree that UBISOFT may stop to support previous versions of the Product upon availability of an updated version. UBISOFT’s channel partners and associated service providers shall have no obligation to furnish any maintenance or customer support with respect to the Product. UBISOFT also reserves the right to amend the Rules of Conduct set out in Section 1 to place limits on the use of the Product.

    Well the moment they change my purchase and don't offer me a helix refund will be the moment I no longer support them and will go out of my way to tell everyone willing to listen not to support the company. Hopefully the ACCC gets picked up around the world and hold corporations that manipulate its customer base accountable.

  • DuskDragon56496
    475 posts

    @Rincewind2981 Well there you go then, you've just offered the best reason of all not too purchase garbage in the helix store, because you actually paid for nothing ! And if it's truly "their way or the highway"I'll happily take the highway.

  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts

    @duskdragon56496 Not even just the Helix store. Their entire game. What that clause in there TOS means is that they can legally sell you a broken game and if you don't agree to their TOS then you're not allowed to update the broken game with the fixes that should have been in the game before it was shipped.

    Comes to show you that if a company can get away with releasing a broken and can get away with not fixing it if you don't accept their terms of service.

    Pretty sure they would lose in court if they sell a broken product that isn't fixed and refuse to give you a refund or fix it just because you refuse to sign their TOS. ( But that's a whole other can of worms)

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