So... what is the first thing, in your opinion, that everyone on the team should understand, which is the most basic thing to succeed in the mission:

Better a living dog than a dead lion: Prefer to play more in back cover than forward, expect most enemies to come to you.

Two heads are better than one: Resurrect team members as quickly as possible.

Many hands make light work: Having builds that help the whole team and not just one player.

Haste makes waste: Wait for the team before starting any battle.

Practice makes perfect: Knowing how to move and how to use builds.

Better alone than in bad company:...

I have done random Legendary and just give up - its a constant turn over of players and soon as one dies he quits and another joins and the same thing happens we went through 10 players before finishing the mission once - if you can't commit to the mission you shouldn't join. Legendary is best done with a known group. I have been abandoned by all three players in some I have done - why do you join if you can't commit.

@l3and80

LOL! All of the above (except the last one), so I am not going to vote for one.

Now, Legendary is one where the chances to get to the end with a team made of random players below SHD 1000 are not very high... not a rule, just a statistical observation. Them giving up when down also a problem (this is one of the reason I want the ability to block players AFTER they left the session, some sort of session history thingy).
The other sign that things may not go well is the lack of communication, chat or audio. This would be understandable for players that usually play together and did it before, but not for random groups.

Idk which one to pick, I'll just comment on each option.

"Many hands make light work"
Everyone should just do damage (skill/dps)
Healers and Tanks are not necessary at all.
(Tank can be usefull for DUA boss, but that's it)

"Haste makes waste"
I'll wait till someone else opens the door, but as soon as it opens I'll run in to take my position.
This is because they probably gonna die and I don't want to fight from the previous room like a noob.

"Better a living dog than a dead lion"
I almost push every room at least 40%.
If people push with me, I know we get a fast and smooth run (without even speedrunning)
If I die because the rest sits at the beginning of the room and I get all the aggro, I'll adapt to their playstyle.
(People that sit in the previous room have no business in legendaries and get kicked)

"Practice make perfect"
True
If you know where to sit and what builds to use, you can wipe rooms in no time.

"Two heads are better than one"
Indeed
I wait a moment to see if someone else does it.
(As I'm most likely in the middle of the room)
But if no-one does I'll do it as soon as its safe.
(meaning Drone Controllers/Grenadiers are dead)
And when I see someone sitting 3 meters away from a dead teammate and rather keeps shooting enemies then picking him/her up.
I'll vote to remove that person, go play solo if you're like that.
(Unless there is only 1 enemy left)

"Better alone than in bad company"
On days when you only find bad players, in that case I just go solo until a friend comes on.

@BT3241 True, I started doing group legendary two weeks ago and I noticed this too, the worst thing is not the newbies who barely know how to build builds and who go crazy shooting, but the high level SHD veterans who DON'T wait for the team to leave at the front, they don't know how to retreat and die first, they get angry blaming others and leave the game... they don't know how to lose, I always give my team at least 3 chances before leaving... and I leave without cursing anyone and come back playing with the same people without problems, if they are not one of those players from the previous poll... because of those I want distance.

@Adrian-11 Yes, all options should be considered, but I put it to choose only one option because I knew that even though I gave voters the option to choose all poll options, the forum system would "boycott" and would only allow one option, as always... As for blocking, I agree, the players' names should be available for a while (5 minutes?), both to block players who leave the team right after the first loss (be they veterans or rookies) and those who kick players in the session, if a guy doesn't want to play with me and kicks me out of his session, obviously I don't want to play with him either.

@DutchLMB4ever I only disagree with the part that healers and tanks aren't necessary. Depending on which part it is they will be more useful to the team than DPS, of course I mean 4 person games where you have 3 DPS (weapon or skill), 1 healer or 1 tank, sometimes playing with 3 more DPS in certain parts I had to "destroy" half of my offensive skill build, changing my stinger hive to reviver hive to resurrect other agents and after that it's very difficult to switch again to any other skill, because for every cooldown the reviver hive takes over 70 seconds to restore (7 cooldowns) and elsewhere I traded one of the abilities back to the restorer hive... and it helped me and the others a lot on the boat at Roosevelt Island with those 2 damned large drones taking all the armor and life with one attack, ie, at certain times a simple build switch or just skills can help a lot.

In general we agree, especially in the part where someone is next to a dead agent and prefers to try his luck shooting at various NPCs until he dies too OR the guy is alone, seeing the other 3 agents on the ground, having a reviver hive ready to be used, in range of one of the dead agents and don't use the reviver hive... until some NPC shoots him... he falls, rises by the reviver hive and 10 seconds later goes to the ground again and the team goes back to the beginning of the mission, if there's an agent down, close to my reviver hive range, I don't even think about it, I change my skill to her right away and throw it in his direction, even if he dies five seconds later... the important thing is that I made mine part.

@l3and80 Healer at the boat is usefull as well (forgot about that because I/we use decoys now)
With well timed decoys they don't even look at you.
Especially if someone with a skill build uses it.
Skill build throws it at the back of the boat.
When his is almost done you throw your tier 1.
He gets his back and throws it again.
Then one other throws a tier 1. Etc
And in the meantime 3 dps shoot them.
But then again that's with friends not randoms lol.

But besides a Tank at DUA boss or a Healer at Roosevelt boss.
They are not needed and you lose extra damage.
Not that it matters to me tho, I'll play anyway.
It just goes a little slower while it could be a little faster lol.

Last week we got a SHD Level 1 player when I matchmaking, at the Capitol building Legendary.
I think he only went down 2-3 times on the whole mission.

@DutchLMB4ever I agree... for those damn Tanks, it's better that the whole team is full DPS, I don't think any main boss in the game has half their armor, I think only the Hunters.

@Imagine_Brata I also joined a team yesterday that had two players with SHD less than 100, even so the guys played a lot, we only lost because of a team blunder that is very common, both for novice and experienced players: which is NOT to back down fast and find a cover as far as possible, especially if it's the damn Tanks approaching, the biggest flaw here was mine, unfortunately I had to leave the game, but I'm pretty sure the guys, if they kept playing, ended up on the second try.

note: Video has been accelerated by 5x due to being long...

No choice....

Legendaries are a JOKE, and only 1% of the game pop even attempted them...

Should be removed from game.....

Let alone, only "try" hards who have unlimited game time can even "Q" for them and do them, UNLESS they already have "pre made" teams....

Which means they shouldn't even be clicking anything on your list....

I have had great luck and fun playing with teams of randoms on Legendary. I have beaten District and Capitol
at least 20 times each and Roosevelt 7 times. Great fun and very rewarding. Even got my Bighorn. One team even had a level 8 player and he stuck it out to the end, so we dropped a lot of loot in case he bought the DLC. It's to the point that if I am on any semi competent team, I know we can beat any stronghold. No doubt, solo Leg is totally beyond me, but, team play gives most people a way to succeed. It's definitely worth a try. The key is patience, caution and keeping everybody up.

@ken_koerperich

You are the joke, a sad one that is...
All games are too hard and "a joke" to you.

@adrian-11

This is a FORUM, and everyone is entitled an opinion.

Don't like others opinions, don't frequent the forum.

Quit being a f'n fanboi to UBItard, go back to your basement...

Toodles nub!

@hralex1951 The same here... regardless of where the missions are (Capitol, District or Roosevelt), or the SHD level of the other agents, most teams I join, play well, have well-built builds, losses are usually due to excess trustworthy, that instead of everyone backing away fast when they notice that the NPCs are entering the area (especially the Tank), they keep trying to kill one or two NPCs while another two or three are invading... then most of the time it fell 2 agents, it was the other 2 as well.

Patience is key as you said and if someone is starting in Legendary, start with the simplest skill build: drone and turret, as you progress and gain experience you will know which build or skills are most useful for a particular area, stay as far away possible from NPCs, always back off when you see they are advancing, if the team does this (be humble and recognize that you cannot face Legendary NPCs face to face) the chances of ending Legendary are great.

This is all if the team does not communicate via the microphone or via chat, because if they do communicate, the chances improve much more.

@Ken_Koerperich The same goes for you... after all the @Adrian-11 gave his opinion and it looks like you didn't like it... normal, because this is just his opinion, you are free to like it, as I respect yours, but neither I liked your opinion, that you think a certain mode should be taken out of the game just because you don't like it or don't play it, if 1% of people play Legendary, which I think is more, but let's only calculate 1% using the information that the developer passed away some time ago (The Division 2 player base: 40 million players worldwide) so we have 400,000 people enjoying or having fun (or stressed) with this game mode.

Don't ask the developer to remove content from a game, but rather to add or change this content... I've never played a PVP game and I hate DZ even more now with the Cheater reports, but I don't think they should do so, but rather change as I and other players have already made some suggestions in previous posts.

Try to play a game of Legendary with a decent team who know how to position themselves and quickly retreat, who will see that as a group, Legendary isn't as scary as playing solo... just don't be that kind of guy who uses a shield or a build DPS and runs ahead as if he were playing Heroic, advancing against the NPCs, is the first to die and still gets angry with the team, thinking it was their fault he died for the NPCs.

You are free not to like my opinion either, the main function of my poll was to make certain players understand that those first five options are the basics a player has to do in a team, be it a high level SHD of clans, be it random rookie Super Noobs playing Legendary with all directives turned on, if a certain player doesn't understand this OR just falls into teams that don't understand these basics that in team games you play for the team and not just for you because the team's victory is your victory, so only the last option remains.

@ken_koerperich

Maybe I pushed a bit too far there, being annoyed by the suggestion to remove difficulties from the game (not that it will even happen...), and the overall "complainy" tone about everything and anything being "a joke". Because of that I thought you are a spoiled kid of the entitled generation that can't imagine to have it difficult no matter what... Your latest post sounds the same way. BTW, "Quit being a f'n fanboi to UBItard, go back to your basement..." - this is rich!

As was said before, Legendary is for players that done it all and need an extra challenge. It's not about how much time you have in a day, there are people who started playing day one, or coming from Division 1 with that experience. I assure you that at the moment you have more time than I do in a day, it's just that I started earlier (maybe).
There are six levels of difficulty because different players enjoy different difficulties. If you like to play mostly Story or Normal, that's fine. And still finding your way through Hard difficulty at ~300 SHD is fine as well. But there is a long way from there to completing a Legendary mission.
I was close to 1000 SHD and my first contact with Legendary was a serious shock. Couldn't make it more than 5 minutes into the mission. On DUA which is the easier, I couldn't make into the building. At that point in time I was playing everything on Heroic.
Left after a few days, came back in 3 months and it worked, but only because I got more experience in the meantime and I was lucky to run into an experienced team that guided me through the first run ever. Then I paired with a very experienced player from which I learned a lot, and now I have the confidence that I can do it in a team that has at least an idea of what to expect and how to counter what they are throwing at you.
Anyway...

I tend to play mainly legendary these days, only with randoms and without comms (not many speak English where I am), so my experiences are probably different to a lot of people here. The items below are based on those parameters

Biggest irritations

• Speed runners - Especially at the start of a mission when no-one really knows what build or abilities the others have. Test the waters as a team first, adjust if needed after the first skermish and then go for speed if reasonible to do so. Charging in without the team usually results in aggro'd ai presenting the other players with a wall of fire as they try to get in position. I sometimes go ahead after finishing a section but generally jog so others can catch up and wait by the door to the next section until at least 3 of the team are ready. Nothing wrong with speed running if you are in a team who knows that is what you are doing and is built for it.

• Carried Speed Runners - People who think they can just charge through the mission due to a false sense of greatness imparted on them by playing with a strong team previously who pretty much carried them.

• Inventory organisers at every drop - So there is a loot drop and there are some players that just stand routing around in their inventory for ages. Sure, sometimes you max out and have to do a bit of shuffling and junking but not for every loot drop. I try to make sure there is some room to pick up unexpctedly good items and give each drop a quick assessment... junk or take for later examination. Trying to adjust builds in a mission can be frustraiting for those who are looking to move forwards.

• The definition of insanity - People charging in and going down only to be revived and go charging in again and go down again etc.

• They'll protect you - Shield guys who block everyone else. This was a much bigger issue in the Div 1. Not so bad in my experience for Div 2 but does happen. I do play a shield build sometimes but try to angle to 45deg on so there is some line of sight to my side for others to shoot as well. I do sometimes stand in front of someone but that is usually as they are at risk of going down due to agro or are reviving someone or doing something else where they cannot fire back.

• Skill and hide - People who drop skills and just hide all the time. I have a couple of skill builds but also have in-sync and spike on weapons so shoot to up the skills damage. Playing with people who just drop skills and hide just makes me feel like taking cover and then grabbing a sandwich and cup of tea... If they aint making much of an effort .....

• Aint no helping you - Been mentioned above I think but those who have no interest in helping downed teammates, even if randoms. If I go down in the middle of the area with fire from all side and no cover then sure... leave me there until it is safe, but if I am next to the cover they are shooting from then why not get me back up unless they are being overrun or drone / grenade spammed...

• Need a free ride - Helping out somone get through a legendary is good now and then but a single digit SHD level with the rest of the team around a SHD of < 500 each is really timeconsuming unless the others have very strong builds. Some people should know their limits and work up rather than expect to be pulled through on the back of others all the time.

• One try is all you get - Players who quit after a single try regardless of why it failed (unfortunate positioning, someone hitting the wrong key at the wrong moment, lack of communication, bad team build combination). When it sometimes takes a bit of time to get a 4 player team together, someone quitting rather than giving it another attempt can be quite frustrating... Doubly so if it is around a Boss area so you cannot matchmake. Went down to a party of two for the final boss at DUA recently. We did it but it was a hard slog...

• Disconnected players - Not the players fault usually. I suspect this is more to do with the Div2 backend connectivity and stability more than the players setup. I get hit a lot over the weekend sometimes and rarely during the week. Players were disconnecting every couple of Summit rooms when I was playing over the weekend. Not unusual to get disconnected from 1 in 2 missions in otehr areas too. Program just hangs and needs to be killed. Forced to sit through the unskippable Ubi / AMD / Snowflake intro before you can get back in just adds to the frustration.

I have been playing Summit on legendary quite a lot over the last two weks with randoms and most of the time it is ok. A few "gotta get there first" people and a few "up/down/up/downers" but for the most part, reasonible. Seen some 5 digit SHD players who looked like they just paid for levels and some low SHD level players who seem to have worked hard on great builds.

Lots of crusader shields and rifles.

I tend to do Summit Legendary with a full shield build giving armour to the team on deplyment and on damage. I usually don't deply unless getting overwhelmed or if I notice someone else is going low on their armour. Double revive allows me to revive others and then collect and still have one charge. With the 'quickdraw' ?? holster, using an AR builds it up and so the first Liberty shot does significant damage when the shield is deployed.

If in a strong team then I will usually switch to a more fun build like CC or explosive. If the team is going down a lot then I might switch to a healer.

Had some great runs with randoms, more than bad ones. Lack of comms and no common language most of the time probably helps though

@Rim_Block I think the same, but the ones that annoy me the most are the Super Badass (high SHD level) who, because they are more skillful than the others and think they have the perfect build, advance too much in certain areas (especially those who use shields) and The result is almost always the same: he dies to the NPCs, far from the other players and out of reach of the revive hive, and end up leaving the game (whether out of shame at himself or out of anger at thinking the team should go ahead with him... even without him having said anything) and the lazy Super Noob, who when they feel the level of the Legendary stand somewhere waiting to die (as if they were angry little children)... just follow the poll options, and the chances of success of the mission will be great, just play for the TEAM and not for yourself.


Examples of builds I've seen over the past two days playing on Legendary:

Don't be offended if some of the builds shown are yours or the same as yours, the goal here is to show you what kind of building you should use to enter Legendary, which is a dirty and stolen mode yes, but if played in a good group, with players who know how to play as a team, it can be a lot of fun, especially for those who have mastered Heroic for some time and are missing new content.

Give Legendary a chance, follow the poll options and be patient, who will soon have experience and know how to play and when to exchange builds or skills to get along and help the team.I recommend starting to play legendary for Roosevelt Island, which in my opinion, for having a more open area than the other two and having a certain "trick" to finish easier, and I think less complicated than the Capitol and DUA, which are in more closed areas.

@rim_block

Very well summarized. I nodded a lot when reading your typifications.

Speed runners - (...)
The definition of insanity - People charging in and going down only to be revived and go charging in again and go down again etc.

Yeah, basically not taking at least a bit time to wait for the team to regroup and to engage the enemy together can be the difference between succeeding and wiping. Often players advancing alone and dying where no one can quickly or safely revive them leave the team either while they're down or shortly after having been revived. See also One try is all you get ...

Carried Speed Runners - People who think they can just charge through the mission due to a false sense of greatness imparted on them by playing with a strong team previously who pretty much carried them.

I wouldn't even say that this applies only to players "charging through the mission" – generally there are a lot of players that where carried through legendary content either by other players or their skills and thus basically do not know anything about actually playing legendary missions. But yet they think that they know everything and can do anything because of that "false sense of greatness". Instead knowing one's limits and slowly pushing them by constantly improving and learning would be the better way...

Need a free ride - Helping out someone get through a legendary is good now and then but a single digit SHD level (...) is really timeconsuming (...). Some people should know their limits and work up rather than expect to be pulled through on the back of others all the time.

Yep, here we are again: Sometimes MM and often skill builds allow people to punch above their weight. Don't get me wrong: helping other players can be great fun – but just carrying someone who doesn't listen to any advice, who doesn't respond when being asked not to run ahead and open doors without the team, and who doesn't really contribute to finishing a mission or cleaning a room can be very annoying.

Skill and hide - People who drop skills and just hide all the time. (...) Playing with people who just drop skills and hide just makes me feel like taking cover and then grabbing a sandwich and cup of tea... (...)

And often they are not even helping the team with that. Because a lot of skillbuild players are only used to playing with said build – and they often are also used to only playing with other skillbuilds. In such a scenario all the agents basically do... nothing... and all the skills slowly deplete armor bar after armor bar. They're damage over time will eventually do the trick, while the agents do not have to participate in the game and thus also won't get the enemies' aggro.

Now when one or two drone/turret-skillbuilds team up with other builds, they deploy their skills and sit back and relax. When they do so, they skills will – as usual – do all the work for them and they themselves won't get aggro'd. But this time not their skills get the aggro, but their two teammates who actually shoot at the enemies. Because the skills may deal enough damage over time to clear a room after a while, but a good DPS-build deals waaaaaaay more damage, especially burst damage. (And of course dealing as much damage as possible as quickly as possible is a good thing.) And that's why because the AI now chooses to ignore the rather harmless skills and engage the DPS-players – and suddenly 2 DPS-players get the aggro which usually should be distributed among all 4 agents... but since the skillbuild players sit back and relax, they put their mates at a higher risk of being overrun.

Inventory organisers at every drop - (...) Trying to adjust builds in a mission can be frustraiting for those who are looking to move forwards.

I'd even say that when playing legendary content you should not use a build that bad it needs to see a freshly looted item incorporated right away.

They'll protect you - Shield guys who block everyone else. This was a much bigger issue in the Div 1. Not so bad in my experience for Div 2 but does happen. (...)

Interesting – I experience it the other way around! I did not even see this as a small problem in TD1, when you only could equip the Bulwark shield and could only use a pistol with it (only having the dedicated tank Gear Set D3-FNC allowing you to use an SMG). Back in that days I really had the feeling that shields were primarily if not only used by tanks (who could really tank some damage thanks to how aggro worked in TD1).

Now, with allowing DPS-builds, AR-builds, shotgun-builds etc. to use a shield they pretty much are in every (MM) team. Oh and with introducing this overpowered Memento backpack they even almost transformed TD2 from a cover-based shooter to a shield-based shooter. Which alone is sad enough, but having the Memento players desperately trying to get every kill fosters even more of that LoS-blocking, greedy, and selfish playstyle that is of course in no way compatible with functioning as a team (and enjoying the game as such one).

I only tried doing legendary twice when I was level 100 or so and we did terrible. A week or so around level 1300 I joined a group for regular pve stuff, and we did so good we tried legendary, and we did it one try. In this groups only one guy told us how it's done and that was it. The problem is that most players play Legendary like a heroic mission. All you need to do let go off you dps builds for this and use skills and lay back and let the drones and turrets do the work. Yes, of course it can be done even with dps builds while being solo if you want to make it challenging for you. That's later. But not the first time. I've seen terrible players do legendary with some good players. Not everyone has to be great. Two can do the heavy lifting.

@sr_0v3rk1ll I know how is was. It's just training and not giving up. The first times are the worst. and it gets easier when you learn where they spawn